kernel101 2017-01-09 14:38:49
can someone xplain to me how to do proof of existnece
sleepyhead 2017-01-09 14:47:10
kernel101: proof of existence of a document or file?
CoJaBo 2017-01-09 14:47:38
Make hash, publish hash, ???, profit!
sleepyhead 2017-01-09 14:48:09
CoJaBo: you are talking op_return which just bloats the blockchain. I'll suggest an alternative
kernel101 2017-01-09 14:48:51
of a file
sleepyhead 2017-01-09 14:48:55
kernel101: run the file through sha256sum. the hex number you get you plug into bitaddress.org's wallet details tab. This will give you the corresponding public key and address (use the compressed one)
sleepyhead 2017-01-09 14:50:05
then you send some small amount of bitcoin to that address. then right away import the WIF format private key into a wallet and sweep the funds. this will be proof of existence
kernel101 2017-01-09 14:50:30
SHA-256 b8a647bd3cf81774b3255d16b7fb18b89efa92db0df81a5bb827a7762d989b09
sleepyhead 2017-01-09 14:50:42
kernel101: don't publish it here man
sleepyhead 2017-01-09 14:50:54
kernel101: not until you've done all the steps
Burrito 2017-01-09 14:50:58
just got a dodgy email claiming to be from Coinbase. It bypassed any spam filters. The link inside lead to a "wallet.aes.json.zip" file. Inside the zip file, according to its header, is a "wallet.aes.json.jar" file. Watch the links you click. :>
sleepyhead 2017-01-09 14:51:00
kernel101: now anyone can sweep the coins
sleepyhead 2017-01-09 14:51:41
kernel101: modify the file slightly if you can and it'll give you a new hash so you can actually do what I Said above
Burrito 2017-01-09 14:51:48
sleepyhead: sweep the coins? from a hash of a file? eh?
Burrito 2017-01-09 14:51:55
oh yeah.
sleepyhead 2017-01-09 14:51:59
Burrito: yeah the hash is the private key
Burrito 2017-01-09 14:51:59
you're right
kernel101 2017-01-09 14:52:24
how does this prove anything
sleepyhead 2017-01-09 14:52:39
kernel101: in order to sweep the coins you had to have the private key. the private key is the hash
sleepyhead 2017-01-09 14:52:47
kernel101: the hash existed at this point in time.
sleepyhead 2017-01-09 14:52:54
kernel101: the file also existed
sleepyhead 2017-01-09 14:53:00
voila! proof of existence
Burrito 2017-01-09 14:53:05
kernel101: the steps sleepyhead described effectively makes the hash have an agreed-upon timestamp in the blockchain which cannot be removed without *considerable* effort.
kernel101 2017-01-09 14:53:48
sweep the coins?
kernel101 2017-01-09 14:54:03
so i put coins in there?
kernel101 2017-01-09 14:54:22
file = coins
Burrito 2017-01-09 14:54:24
yes, to publish the hash, you need to publish a transaction to it
Burrito 2017-01-09 14:54:26
no, not the file
Burrito 2017-01-09 14:54:41
to publish the proof*
sleepyhead 2017-01-09 14:54:57
kernel101: maybe you should forget about all this. you seem to be out of your depth.
Burrito 2017-01-09 14:55:02
you can just put a token amount like 0.000001
CoJaBo 2017-01-09 14:55:57
Burrito: I still get mtgox emails like that for some reason
kernel101 2017-01-09 14:56:03
so i send coins to the address created from the file and that proves what
kernel101 2017-01-09 14:56:23
i did it first?
Burrito 2017-01-09 14:56:53
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_Ownership#Existence
piqure 2017-01-09 14:56:54
^^^ WARNING: any URL may lead directly or indirectly to COIN-STEALING MALWARE! ^^^
CoJaBo 2017-01-09 14:57:21
It proves the file existed at that time
CoJaBo 2017-01-09 14:57:32
Because otherwise, how could you have sent the coins :P
kernel101 2017-01-09 14:57:51
if i hash my file and give it to someone else to put in a transaction
kernel101 2017-01-09 14:58:00
what happens then
Burrito 2017-01-09 14:58:03
then it still existed when you had it.
Burrito 2017-01-09 14:58:12
the proof is still valid
sleepyhead 2017-01-09 14:58:42
kernel101: that bloats the blockchain. that's what
sleepyhead 2017-01-09 14:58:42
kernel101: the way I told you to do it doesn't do that.
kernel101 2017-01-09 14:58:58
how does that not bloat?
Burrito 2017-01-09 14:59:03
the transaction signed by you to that address still exists, even though someone else sent a transaction.
kai1 2017-01-09 15:00:13
does 'locktime requirement not satisfied' mean that op_checklocktimeverify failed, or that nlocktime is bigger than the current time?
kernel101 2017-01-09 15:00:52
what happens if i hash my gfile to sha265 and the public address is not involved
kernel101 2017-01-09 15:03:04
can i md5 a file and put it in a transacton?
kernel101 2017-01-09 15:03:14
is that proof
wickerman 2017-01-09 15:03:21
can Electrum connect to an actual node instead of a server ?
Burrito 2017-01-09 15:03:29
kernel101: that serves no better purpose than sha256ing it
sleepyhead 2017-01-09 15:03:33
kernel101: the blockchain is not designed to store arbitrary data. it is designed to store bitcoin transactions. every full node carries a copy of the blockchain and when you store arbitrary data on it you waste their resources. so its better to do it like i said. alternatively if you must post a hash then use op_return. you can create an op_return transaction using https://coinb.in
piqure 2017-01-09 15:03:34
^^^ WARNING: any URL may lead directly or indirectly to COIN-STEALING MALWARE! ^^^
kernel101 2017-01-09 15:03:59
ok thankk you
kernel101 2017-01-09 15:04:15
so storing just the hash like md5 in transaction or something is good enough
CoJaBo 2017-01-09 15:04:40
MD5 is broken for that purpose, btw
kernel101 2017-01-09 15:04:52
if it wasnt broken
kernel101 2017-01-09 15:04:56
would still bne okay?
CoJaBo 2017-01-09 15:05:45
kernel101: Use SHA256
Burrito 2017-01-09 15:06:02
if you want a smaller hash, I don't see the point but it should work.
CoJaBo 2017-01-09 15:06:23
MD5 was broken years ago; if you absolutely needed a smaller hash, there are ways of shortening SHA2
Burrito 2017-01-09 15:08:32
it wouldn't save blockchain space to use a smaller hash, by the way... except in its compressed forms.
Burrito 2017-01-09 15:08:39
if there's many proofs.
Burrito 2017-01-09 15:08:48
(AFAIK)
kernel101 2017-01-09 15:09:04
if i put a hash in the blockchain on a monday. and that file is a picture i drew with my name on it saying i drerw it.. and on tuesday i releasse the picture on my facebookj and some says it is theres on wednesday.
kernel101 2017-01-09 15:09:15
is that enough proof? to say its miy drawing?
kernel101 2017-01-09 15:09:37
can i disprove that person in court
CoJaBo 2017-01-09 15:09:49
That is as of yet untested
kernel101 2017-01-09 15:09:49
if need i to
kernel101 2017-01-09 15:10:20
how do u mean
sleepyhead 2017-01-09 15:10:33
kernel101: may I suggest simply publishing the hash in the newspaper as an advertisement? that is so much simpler and it'll be much easier to prove it court too
Burrito 2017-01-09 15:10:40
in theory it would work... if you can get an expert in court to explain that it would be mathematically impossible for you to not have drawn the picture before you published the proof, it might work.
CoJaBo 2017-01-09 15:10:44
kernel101: It theoretically should hold up, but only if the judge/jury understands PoE. Also, the guy could just say he created it on Sunday.
kernel101 2017-01-09 15:11:36
thank yoiu
kernel101 2017-01-09 15:12:51
maybe i will just publish the picture :)
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:39:19
TandyUK: sorry about that. If you want to post addresses in here, just put the word "validateaddress" anywhere on the same line with it and it won't.
mryandao 2017-01-09 15:39:55
what's stopping scammers from abusing that?
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:39:56
TandyUK: The idea being that spammers and beggars mass-posting to channels are blocked, and also it encourages people not to publically post addresses in order to help protect peoples' privacy.
mryandao 2017-01-09 15:40:39
there should be a bitcoin trivia question, before posting addresses
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:40:53
mryandao: They've never done it before. Spammers typically don't actually sit in here. They just mass-spam all channels in a misguided b-s idea that it's effective marketing.
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:41:10
(Or they're begging and they think anyone here is willing to part with literally any bitcoin whatsoever.)
CoJaBo 2017-01-09 15:41:20
There should be an IQ test before getting voice :P
gmaxwell 2017-01-09 15:42:10
midnightmagic: you could also just tell people to put a space in it.
mryandao 2017-01-09 15:42:44
gmaxwell: what's a high resolution timestamp?
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:42:47
The beggars figured that part out and were doing that explicitly, so the pattern recognizer actually de-obfuscates most of those forms of obfuscation automatically.
mryandao 2017-01-09 15:42:52
you were talking about them earlier
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:43:26
I was thinking of doing more including word combinatorials but right now the worst-case is I think.. uh.. 30000 SHA2 for a single line of IRC?
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:43:37
Something like that.
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:43:42
That feels a little expensive. :)
mryandao 2017-01-09 15:44:57
what's the word combinatorials for?
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:45:04
In other words, I myself can, if I knew all the channels I was on, DoS myself into oblivion with a special pattern.
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:45:51
mryandao: So this sort of thing: RESTOFADDRESS invertme FIRSTPART it won't get.
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:46:09
Or FIRSTPART and remove these words RESTOFADDRESS also.
mryandao 2017-01-09 15:46:34
so you rig someone's address
mryandao 2017-01-09 15:46:37
whenever they post it?
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:46:41
Also it currently accepts as valid an address which is too short which is technically incorrect. Some clever person figured that out a few months ago.
mryandao 2017-01-09 15:46:42
s/rig/mangle
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:47:08
mryandao: De-mangle it. Lots of the simple forms of address mangling it just automatically mines.
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:47:47
like FIRST*&^$PART.. SECOND-104 PART it automatically recognizes.
mryandao 2017-01-09 15:48:04
what's the point of this again?
mryandao 2017-01-09 15:48:10
to deter beggars from posting?
mryandao 2017-01-09 15:48:17
but allow non-newbs to post addresses?
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:48:52
Mostly anti-spammers. We get a lot of begging in here. It's super annoying. Also extortion attempts. And finally, it's really bad to post addresses you actually use in a public forum due to e.g. law enforcement logging.
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:49:19
And the FBI has demonstrated that are aware of e.g. #bitcoin-otc (the name of it has appeared in an actual FBI report) which means we can just assume they're logging everything in here.
mryandao 2017-01-09 15:49:32
oh wow
CoJaBo 2017-01-09 15:50:27
Hi, FBI dude!
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:50:59
Realistically I'm not trying to make it easier for criminals to operate, but instead for private innocent citizens to be swept up in data gathering dragnets. For example, thanks to shitty information analyses, this might have happened: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2653
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:51:44
Uh. Trying to help private citizens not be swept up in shitty analyses I mean.
CoJaBo 2017-01-09 15:52:50
lol
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:53:41
Privacy should not be dependant, in other words, on the good graces of people in power. And that's ignoring entirely the shitty corps like chainalysis who *sell* such information to anyone who pays for it.
DuckOnPancake 2017-01-09 15:55:58
what is the standard for encoding data files
DuckOnPancake 2017-01-09 15:56:19
base64?
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:56:33
Like that guy who has six figures of btc sitting there in barely-concealed accounts. Upstream of him was silk road transactions. A naive analysis might conclude he *used* silk road and got money *from* silk road. Instead, perhaps someone who was a drug dealer sent money to him because he bought so much of it. How is he supposed to know squat about anything? He's just some idiot. So why should he be
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:56:39
arrested for buying the equivalent
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:56:42
of antique chairs from someone who turned out to be a drug dealer?
mryandao 2017-01-09 15:57:29
does bc.info perform deanonymization on bitcoin users?
mryandao 2017-01-09 15:57:44
i know kraken and some of the other exchanges do
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:57:58
Yes of course they facilitate deanonymization by spying on the entire network and letting anyone look at where transactions originated according to their spy network.
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:58:31
Plus their former sharedcoin was a total bunk lie.
mryandao 2017-01-09 15:58:41
do they sell their deanonymization service?
mryandao 2017-01-09 15:58:52
through private dealings
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:58:55
No, you can just go there and look. There's a little google maps pin.
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 15:59:01
I don't know anything about that.
mryandao 2017-01-09 15:59:12
surely they'd have better quality under the hood
DuckOnPancake 2017-01-09 16:03:05
what is the standard for encoding data files
DuckOnPancake 2017-01-09 16:03:08
base64?
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 16:03:15
Which data files?
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 16:03:24
And standard by whose measure? :-)
DuckOnPancake 2017-01-09 16:03:31
small to medium to large
mryandao 2017-01-09 16:03:45
that's as unhelpful as it gets
DuckOnPancake 2017-01-09 16:03:58
what is the most efficient would you say
mryandao 2017-01-09 16:04:11
for what purpose?
DuckOnPancake 2017-01-09 16:04:52
to store as a different format but the represent the file
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 16:05:00
DuckOnPancake: Raw data, plus accompanying checksum I guess for data integrity, plus a signature from someone for data source authentication maybe?
DuckOnPancake 2017-01-09 16:05:01
to prevent sql
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 16:05:36
DuckOnPancake: Eh. Not much to answer you about there. Probably wander over to another channel maybe and ask them? Like what context is this? What's in the files?
midnightmagic 2017-01-09 16:21:05
oh well
